This is #3 in the Top 10 of the First 1,000 — the countdown of the ten most-downloaded episodes in the history of the 10 Minute Teacher. Ranked on total downloads including re-airs, this one has been heard 27,058 times.
Reading stamina is the thing nobody assigns and everybody needs. Lisa Hollihan Allen is a K-12 reading specialist who works with struggling readers every day as a literacy interventionist, and she gives five ways to build the endurance that makes everything else in a content classroom possible.
Teaching older kids to read is a challenge faced by many teachers in middle and high school. I believe that is why this show has resonated so much. What do you do if you teach 9th grade history but the students cannot read your book? This show is to help with that!
Lisa Hollihan Allen, MSE, is a teacher, literacy coach and author. She began her education career as a middle school English teacher and has taught in both public and Catholic schools. She currently is a K-12 reading specialist for the West De Pere School District in Wisconsin where she works with students every day as a literacy interventionist. Her role in education expanded when she worked as a literacy leader and high school literacy team facilitator for Wisconsin CESA 7 extending educational opportunities to all corners of the state and across the nation. Lisa served as an adjunct instructor at St. Norbert College where she taught the course Language Analysis and Applied Linguistics. She was a state finalist for the Kohl Teacher Fellowship.
Lisa and Dr. Katherine McKnight wrote the book, Strategies to Support Struggling Adolescent Readers, Grades 6-12 for their middle and high school colleagues who were frustrated that they didn’t have the skills and knowledge they needed to help their students who were struggling with reading in the different disciplines. She has published articles in the Wisconsin English Journal and has spoken at state and national conferences on aspects of secondary literacy.
This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki
Announcer (00:00): This is the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.
Vicki Davis (00:05): We’re counting down the top 10 episodes of all time for the 10-Minute Teacher Podcast. And today, we’re talking about five ways to build reading stamina in adolescent learners. This episode from Lisa Hollihan Allen comes in at number three, with just over 27,000 downloads for this episode. Let’s learn. Lisa Hollihan Allen, co-author of Strategies to Support Struggling Adolescent Readers, grades 6 through 12, recently named one of the top 25 best common core e-books by Book Authority. And today we are talking about five ideas to support adolescent students’ reading stamina. Now, Lisa, reading stamina, this is really something that a lot of teachers talk about, isn’t it?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (00:59): And it’s true. Teachers talk about it and they recognize the importance of it, but they’re not sure what to do about it or even what it really is.
Vicki Davis (01:08): So how would you define reading stamina?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (01:11): Well, reading stamina is the ability to persevere in reading tasks on your own. NCTE, the National Council of Teachers of English, in their position statement on independent reading defined it as being able to sustain mental effort without scaffolds or adult support. Now, when I’m talking to my kids about this, I say it means you can keep reading and reading and reading and reading without stopping. And if you get distracted, you notice that you’re distracted and you refocus.
Vicki Davis (01:44): Because, you know, there are a lot of, well, I think it’s probably you and I were both in school. A lot of teachers will complain and say they’re just pretending to read, they’re not really reading.
Lisa Hollihan Allen (01:54): Absolutely. Fake reading is definitely one of the barriers that we face because it goes on in their heads, right? So they could be looking at the page and fake reading. And it’s really hard, especially during independent reading time with their own choice reading books, for us to know that they’re fake reading. And the problem is that most kids have word recognition by second grade to about the middle of fourth grade, but a lot of those kids still haven’t developed stamina. And they need us, especially the older kids, they need us to help them, to support them sustaining their attention.
Vicki Davis (02:33): Okay, so what is the first idea?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (02:36): First idea is they need time. We need to provide protected opportunities for them to be reading, which is hard to do with our schedules being so busy and our time being full as it is. But there’s a direct correlation between the amount of time our kids are reading and their reading achievement. There’s a serious Matthew effect they’re discovering that the more kids read, the better they are at reading. I talk to my kids a lot about running. If you want to be a better runner, you have to practice, right? And I can help you with techniques and nutrition and increase your speed. And we can do all kinds of things like that. And I talked to the kids, well, I’m your reading coach. And I’m going to make sure we have time to practice because it’s…
Vicki Davis (03:23): Yes, for sure. So we need protected time to be reading. What second place?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (03:29): It’s a big deal, especially for adolescent kids, to self-select what they’re reading, especially during independent reading time. Interest drives engagement. It motivates them. They’re more likely to understand the vocabulary if they have background knowledge and experience on the topic or an interest in the topic or background on the series. So, you know, most of the day, teachers are telling them what to read. So if we can give them choice during independent reading time, that’s a huge plus.
Vicki Davis (03:59): So they have a choice. They need uninterrupted, protected time to be reading. What’s the third?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (04:05): Is conferencing. Now, I conference with my students at least once a week and I do, you know, teachery things while I’m conferencing with them. But you can also conference, the kids can conference with each other. They can work with a small group. I want them to feel like they’re part of a reading community, even like online blogs where they can talk about it. Talking about their reading is a huge thing because don’t we do that as adults? We don’t read a book and not talk about it or, you know, fill in something about it. We talk about it with each other. So we want to model that for the kids as well.
Vicki Davis (04:41): I love that. And you can model and teach them how to conference with each other. I re-shared something that Larry Ferlazzo recently shared. And it was basically that all peer review and collaboration works. All of it. So we want to get them together and let them talk about what they’re doing.
Lisa Hollihan Allen (04:59): It’s very effective.
Vicki Davis (05:00): Okay. What’s our fourth?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (05:02): Fourth is vision. And I should mention that I’m getting these. I’m sort of combining NCTE, some work from Laura Robb, and a lot of it I’m depending heavily on Penny Kittle. And she calls it vision. Essentially, you’re advertising great reads. And we do this. We book talks, book tastings. We want to provide for them a wide range of voices, of topics. We want to have a great classroom library. Thinking about the mirrors and the windows analogy where we want kids to see themselves in our books and we also want them to look through windows. So there’s a visibility to cultures that aren’t our own that we need to be preparing them for the real world and exposing them to different cultures. So, you know, sort of that all-encompassing category of vision. Just get them out there trying things.
Vicki Davis (05:53): And even, you know, the book trailers, those are a lot of fun. And people record and put the QR codes in the front of the book. This is also something peers can do for each other, right?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (06:02): Absolutely. Yep. And they sort of just naturally that ends up happening. Book recommending to each other, talking about books with each other. I do read-alouds, even with my older kids all the way up to high school. They love it, love it, love it. And like if I read the first book in a series, they want the second one. They want the third one. And if I have it in my classroom library, they’re going to pick it.
Vicki Davis (06:26): That’s fantastic. Okay, what’s the fifth?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (06:28): And the fifth one is challenge. We need to challenge our kids. We want to encourage them to stretch. They can stretch through levels. If something’s more difficult for them, it’s a challenge for them, but they need to be attempting that. If they have, let’s say they’re really good about skateboarding, they know a lot about skateboarding. And even if the book is, you know, technically too hard for them, if they’ve got that background knowledge, they’ll be able to, they know the vocabulary. They understand the whole schema of skateboarding, so they’ll be fine. Length of books, try to get them to read longer books. They feel pretty accomplished when they’re reading, you know, or I’m halfway through this. They want to talk about how they’re amazed with themselves. Genres, have them branch out if they’re always reading fiction, try to get them to try some nonfiction and topics. Again, that’s where the mirrors and windows comes in.
Vicki Davis (07:18): You know, the stretching was really something with me and my own children. You know, this may be a bad topic or a good topic for you. I don’t know, but I have a feeling, you know, you have the Accelerated Reader with the points. And my children would always, you know, my son, you know, he was fascinated with the Chronicles of Narnia. And I had read a couple chapters out loud in the car and he was ready. And supposedly his book level was not high enough to be able to read that book. And I fought to get to let him read that book because he wanted to. And guess what? He read it and his reading level jumped. So a stretch is not necessarily a bad thing, is it?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (07:54): No, you’re right about that. And he was motivated to read it.
Vicki Davis (07:58): And willing to look up the words, you know, if their motivation can really overcome maybe gaps.
Lisa Hollihan Allen (08:04): For sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Vicki Davis (08:07): And he’s dyslexic, too. So now he’s a great reader, but it was that stretch that really made a difference for him. So, Lisa, as we’re looking at all of these and you are right in the trenches right now, you’re teaching reading. You are working with this as we record this in fall 2021. You have some teachers tweeted out yesterday, what are your biggest challenges right now? And this student engagement is a big part of the challenge, you know, engaging students and do discipline methods even work right now is one tweet that I got back. What do you say to teachers who are just struggling to re-engage kids as you talk about stamina?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (08:49): And I’ll tell you what, that’s something we’re all talking about. It’s bizarre what we’re seeing this year. You know, they’re good kids, but they’re not used to coming to school every day and all day and being expected to be engaged every day, all day. Between the quarantines that they had to go through last year and when we were remote for part of the time last year, some kids were remote all year long. Our district offered that as an option. And it’s just different. We can’t just say, oh, well, we have to face it and we have to deal with it. And increasing their reading stamina is a big deal because it’s their brain stamina too. It’s their ability to pay attention in social studies and science. And when they’re working on something and don’t really feel like it anymore, you have to power through and just to give them those skills, those expectations.
Vicki Davis (09:44): So when you have those students come across that you can tell they’re struggling with, what are some of the words you use? I just heard you use the word power through. What is your sort of pep talk to those students who are right in front of you and are struggling? you know they can read it, but they’re really struggling with stamina. What’s that vocabulary sound like?
Lisa Hollihan Allen (10:04): Positive reinforcement, baby steps, let them know that it’s okay to feel frustrated. We all feel frustrated. I think sometimes as teachers, especially with older kids, especially older struggling readers, we want to avoid frustration at all costs. And I don’t know that that’s doing them any favors. We want them to power through. We want them to, okay, I’m frustrated. What do I do now? And just help them through those steps. I see that you’re frustrated. You’re not feeling great about this. What should we do? Maybe take a brain break. Something as simple as noticing that you’re frustrated, that doesn’t mean you have to blow up or give up. We can work through this, you know, depending what it is. You know, take a brain break, take a walk, go get a drink, take a deep breath, all those kinds of things. And don’t give up. You got this.
Vicki Davis (10:55): It shows that you’re noticing. So Lisa, as we finish up, think about all the teachers out there who are struggling with this very thing, just like you. Give a pep talk to those teachers.
Lisa Hollihan Allen (11:06): It’s our responsibility. Those are our kids. Those are our students. They’re depending on us. Their parents are depending on us. Their families are depending on us. And we can do it. It’s our responsibility and we can do it. It might look different this year. We might have to break things down a little bit or go a little slower, but we can do it. It’s our responsibility.
Vicki Davis (11:29): It sounds like this hits a hot button and emotional button for you.
Lisa Hollihan Allen (11:33): It does. It is. I mean, I look at my students and I see my students and I think about their struggles and it does. It gets to my heart. And my children are all the way through school, but I always think about that, you know, I’m a mom too. So I know what those moms at home are hoping for and thinking about. And I think about that for my students. Like, I want their mom to know that I am doing what I can and we’re going to get through this and everything’s going to be just fine. And your child is going to progress and make positive steps forward. And I love this and it’s going to be great.
Vicki Davis (12:09): And, you know, every parent wants somebody who’s going to believe in and reach their child.
Lisa Hollihan Allen (12:15): Mm-hmm. And I’ve been teaching for a long time and I have never had a kid that hasn’t made positive gains somehow, somewhere through the things that I do with reading. You know, if it’s reading aloud, if it’s finding their subject or topic that they enjoy. My husband hunts and fishes, so I know that vocabulary so I can talk to kids about hunting and fishing if that’s what they need. And I will be your go-to person about hunting and fishing. I’ll bring some of my husband’s magazines to school and share them with you. You just figure out what a kid needs, you know, diagnose and prescribe, and then you do it.
Vicki Davis (12:55): Whatever it takes. So, educators, we have gotten some fantastic strategies to help promote reading stamina with our adolescent readers from Lisa Hollihan Allen. The book is Strategies to Support Struggling Adolescent Readers, Grades 6 through 12. Thank you, Lisa, for coming on the show.
Lisa Hollihan Allen (13:15): Thank you very much for having me.
Vicki Davis (13:18): Okay, teachers, so let’s talk about a few simple action steps you can take today to apply what we’ve learned. First, start the conversation with your students. Know what reading stamina is and talk to your students about how to build it. Help them understand when they’re getting off task and also how to refocus. Second, work with your administrators or other teachers to carve out time for you and your students to read. If you want to know how a principal did this with his whole school, check out a podcast episode I did sometime back with my friend Todd Nesloney. I’ll share it in the show notes. And you can make reading something everyone does together. Third, after you’ve done these first two things, look at the graphic I created with Lisa’s five steps and figure out what’s next for you. You know, I always talk about innovating like a turtle because all progress is slow steps forward. So figure out what is next. Fourth, I hope you’ll share your story. Teacher Emily Hardeman tweeted last week, at the end of Reading Intervention Group yesterday, a student told me she feels getting to learn to read with me. And three of her friends is a gift she gets every day. Emily says this is why she became a dyslexia therapist. We need more positive stories like Emily’s to flood Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, everywhere. Helping kids read is an act of love that will change their life forever, and you might also encourage other teachers and parents. Finally, I’ve learned about a Literacy Matters conference that is free and coming up this Saturday, February 5th, 2022. If you want to learn more, build your PLN and connect with others. I’ll also have a link to that in the show notes. Now, let’s get out there and let’s help kids read.
Announcer (14:56): You’ve been listening to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. If you like this program, you can find more at CoolCatTeacher.com. If you wish to see more content by Vicki Davis, you can find her on Facebook and Twitter under CoolCatTeacher.
Vicki Davis (15:07): Thank you for listening. Thank you for tuning in to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. Join us here every weekday and subscribe to the Classroom Matters newsletter. See you later, educator.
As the 10 Minute Teacher approaches its 1,000th episode, I went back through the download numbers for every show and pulled the ten that teachers listened to most. One airs each weekday through Thursday, September 24, counting down to number one.
If this one gave you something to try this week, share it with the teacher across the hall.


