Teacher Burnout and Depression: Nicole Terrizzi

Announcer (00:00): Before we begin, today’s conversation is an honest one. Our guest, Nicole Terrizzi, talks about depression, a student who said they didn’t want to be alive, and seeing a child hurt in her own classroom. If these topics are hard for you right now, it’s okay to skip this episode or listen with someone you trust.

Nicole’s story is about getting help, and it ends with hope.

Vicki Davis (00:22): If you’re struggling, don’t feel guilty. Today, we want you to feel empowered. Our guest called 10 therapists. How many called her back? And what did one wise principal say that helped her see a new path? We’re touching on mental health and some difficult classroom moments. We’re talking about teacher burnout and what to do when the teacher is the one who needs help.

This is a Wonderful Classroom Wednesday, episode 1023.

Announcer (00:50): This is the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.

Vicki Davis (00:54): Today, we’re talking with Nicole Terrizzi. She grew up in rural Iowa and then walked into a Kansas City classroom through Teach for America. She was full of hope and completely unprepared for what it would cost her. While she was being told to push harder, she was quietly coming apart. Therapy, medication, eventually even more difficult things to handle.

She lived it and she has come through it and wrote it all down in her memoir. Called Learning in Free Fall, and it asks what happens when the person leading the classroom is the one who needs help. So, Nicole, thank you for coming on the show.

Nicole Terrizzi (01:35): Thank you so much for having me.

What is it really like to be a first-year teacher through Teach For America?

Vicki Davis (01:37): So, Nicole, take me back to your first year in that Kansas City classroom. What did you think teaching would be, and what did it turn out to be instead?

Nicole Terrizzi (01:48): I came from a family of teachers. My mother is a teacher. My aunt is a teacher. My grandmother worked in one single school district her entire career. And so I had a vision of what teaching was. I was really fortunate to grow up, like you said, in rural Iowa, where the schools were really fantastic, actually, at the time.

And even though I grew up in a low-income household, I had access to a really, wonderful education and didn’t realize that just a few hours away in Kansas City, Missouri, for students, that wasn’t the case. I went into teaching thinking I had a pretty solid base of what I was getting myself into and was really excited to be in the classroom and to work with students and to help them.

I had a vision of changing the world and very quickly learned that the systems that were in place not only presented barriers to my students, but presented barriers to me as their teacher as well. And it was incredibly difficult in many, many ways. And as you mentioned, I struggled to help my students, but ultimately that led to struggling to help myself as well.

What does a first-year teacher do when a student is in crisis?

Vicki Davis (02:57): Take us through in that first month, maybe a typical day where you started realizing this is not heading in a good direction?

Nicole Terrizzi (03:04): So it’s funny you ask. I had a pretty impactful experience within the first six weeks. The first month actually went quite well. I was teaching second grade. I was really proud that I know systems, procedures are really, really important and so worked really diligently to set up those expectations for my students. I was very proud of the straight, quiet line that was walking to the library and walking to lunch.

But there were some students in particular that were struggling. And there was one in particular that was having some social emotional issues. And I was really quite concerned about him. He voiced to me that he didn’t want to not only be at school, but didn’t want to be alive, which obviously as a first year teacher was very disconcerting.

Vicki Davis (03:47): Yeah.

Nicole Terrizzi (03:47): And when I reached out for help, didn’t find much. And so I talked to the school counselor. I talked to, a few other mentor teachers, finally the school principal. And then I obviously talked with his family as well. And I was calling his mom usually a couple times a week. I could tell she was getting frustrated.

I didn’t know how to help him. And things came to a head when he voiced again that he was really struggling as a second grader, telling me in the ways that he could, both from physical things, throwing things in the classroom to verbally telling me, like, I don’t want to be alive. It was really tough to hear.

And so I called his mom. I said, would you be willing to chat with him? And she said, no, I’ll be right there. And I said, you don’t need to come in. And she’s like, no, I’m coming right now. And I said, okay. And so she came into the classroom and ultimately pulled him out of the classroom.

And myself and my entire class of second grade students could hear her physically hurting her son. And it was really difficult. I get chills still talking about it today. And she came back into the classroom. And she said, he has something to say to you. He didn’t quite get the apology out fast enough for her before she got frustrated again.

And then she started physically harming him in front of my class and me. And I look back at that and think, like, why didn’t I do something different? Why didn’t I step in the way? But I was 22 years old. First year teacher in my first six weeks of teaching. Ultimately, after it happened, I did my best to try to help the students cope.

Obviously, he was crying. There were students in the classroom crying, and I did my best to try to resemble normalcy and made sure he was okay first and foremost, and then realized we were late for our next class as far as we were going out. So I tried to make sure he was okay.

And when I made sure he was okay, I took the entire class to the library and then immediately went to the principal. Said, you know, this is what happened. I’m really concerned. I need your help. And she told me that she would handle it. And so I took her at her word and honestly went back to my classroom and cried.

Yeah. Pulled myself back together as best I could and went and got the kids and again, went through the day. I touched base with him a few times, made sure he was okay, but closed out the day, got the students out the door and went back to the principal and said like, hey, can we get an update?

And she said, you know, I did a review and an investigation. And based on what I found, she’s not an abusive mother. And so there’s no need to go take this any further. I said, being the young, naive person I was at the time, I said, I literally saw the abuse happen. What do you mean?

And she said, I did an investigation and this doesn’t need to be taken any further. It didn’t sit right with me. And so I went home that night, cried some more. And called Child Protective Services. And I cried to them as well. And she’s like, you don’t have to worry. Like, this is an anonymous call.

And I was like, I know they’re going to know it’s me. And so ultimately, they did know it was me. CPS did investigate. The mother came into my classroom and confronted me in front of my students. And ultimately, the principal came in and the principal was like, what’s going on here? And so the mom told that I had called CPS.

Yes. And when the mom left, the principal told me how disappointed she was in me.

What happens when a teacher reports child abuse and the principal disagrees?

Vicki Davis (07:22): You’re a mandatory reporter. I mean, I don’t understand how you could be disappointed if you’re a mandatory reporter.

Nicole Terrizzi (07:30): And that’s what I said as well. I said I’m a mandatory reporter. I had just gone through all the training knowing that I was a mandatory reporter and felt that responsibility, even knowing that there were likely to be repercussions, which there were. I ended up taking about a week off after that happened just because I was a pretty much a wreck.

And I was like, I don’t know if I can go back. But I did go back because ultimately I knew like it wasn’t any of those students faults that this thing had happened and felt. It was my responsibility. I had committed to doing this work and to being in this classroom, and I went back.

And that first year was incredibly, incredibly difficult. And the second year, I ended up teaching middle school, and that was a good shift for me in many ways, but it had its own difficulties in an urban setting as well. When I joined that second school, I had a principal that was very supportive, and she said to me at one point, she’s like, Nicole, you’re not in Kansas City anymore.

All of those experiences in the classroom were along with me in my next classroom.

Editor’s note: Teachers are mandated reporters in every U.S. state. If you suspect a child is being abused or neglected, you are required to report it; you don’t need proof. In Missouri, where Nicole taught, a teacher must report directly, must give their name, and the report is kept confidential, not anonymous. No supervisor may stop a report. Rules vary, so learn your state’s law and your school’s procedure before you need them. (This is general information, not legal advice.)

How do you know when a teacher needs help for depression?

Vicki Davis (08:33): So when did you realize you were in trouble? Could you describe that?

Nicole Terrizzi (08:37): To give you a little additional context, anxiety and depression is something that I coped with largely my entire life. And so it wasn’t new to me. I knew what to look for. So after that initial experience within those first six weeks, I was like, I’m going to find somebody that I can trust and talk to.

And so I started going to therapy. But it was helping some at the beginning. I ended my first year. The summer was great. And then as I started my second year, I was like, I don’t know if I can do this again. Like I had got one year left in this commitment to teach for America and to this school.

If I’m going to do this, like I need some additional support. So I started taking antidepressants again. When things really came to a head was the holiday break of my second year of teaching. And I was doing the therapy, but it really wasn’t helping a whole lot. I had started going to a psychiatrist to support with the medication.

And I was really lucky to have a really amazing psychiatrist. I’d worked with other people in the past, but he in particular. I had his phone number type of thing relationship where I could text him if I needed help. I had a boyfriend at the time as we broke up and that was when the bottom really dropped out.

I had been home for Christmas felt like nobody really understood me and I came back home to Kansas City and was alone in my apartment. My roommate was still home with her family and I was like if I stay here alone. I am going to do something that I regret. Ultimately called that psychiatrist and said, you know, I need some help.

And he’s like, I will meet you at the hospital. And so I said, okay. So I met him there. Ultimately, that was something that was not completely new to me either. I had been hospitalized once before when I was really young in middle school. And so I went back into the hospital and he had a frank conversation with me and said, you know, Nicole, like you’re doing all of the things you’re taking medication.

You’re on two different medications right now. You’re doing the therapy. We can monitor you here, but I would recommend you think about electroconvulsive therapy. And I was like, you mean like shocking stuff? And he’s like, yeah. And I know that sounds extreme, but I think you’re a prime candidate for it. Like you’ve had a long-term experience with major depression and anxiety.

And I think it’s something that might help you. And ultimately, I made the decision to move forward with it. And obviously, it’s not a recommendation I would make for everybody by any means, but ultimately, I credit it with saving my life.

Should a teacher with depression leave the classroom?

Vicki Davis (11:05): But you taught two more years after that, right?

Nicole Terrizzi (11:08): I did.

Vicki Davis (11:08): So did it become a choice between teaching and your mental health?

Nicole Terrizzi (11:14): Yeah, I did teach for another two years. I ended up teaching in Oakland, California. I really loved my students, and I loved the team that I worked with. But that same principal that had said, you know, you’re not in Kansas City anymore. She had a really tough conversation with me, And I really credit her for that as far as she’s like, you know, you can have impact without teaching.

I wasn’t a bad teacher by any means, but I think that she could see the toll that it was taking on my social emotional health. And she said, there are ways you can create impact without teaching. Do you really want to be a teacher? And we had this conversation as we were talking through like coming back the coming year.

And I was like, that’s hard to hear. One, but. I have dreams of becoming a writer. And she’s like, well, there are ways that you can meld education and writing for sure. And she was the one who kind of gave me the nudge that I needed. I ended up finding a role where I was writing for an education company.

I was really grateful for that boss that took a chance on me after teaching. And I continue to work in that space now where I found a way to continue to have impact in education, which was really, really important to me on a daily basis. I feel really grateful that I’ve worked in the nonprofit space for almost 15 years.

How can teachers prevent burnout and get help sooner?

Vicki Davis (12:29): So if somebody’s listening to you right now, Nicole, and they’re like, okay, what do I do? What are the steps that you want them to know that you wish you maybe had done faster?

Nicole Terrizzi (12:40): Boundaries is the biggest one that I would say. Drawing real boundaries. I could give my entire self to my classroom. And so I did not create boundaries at all. Working from probably 7 a.m. in the morning till 10 p.m. at night. I’m doing everything that I can to support my students. And what else do I have going on?

I’ll like hang out on the weekends and take a break on the weekends. But it was not sustainable. I also just wholly did not take care of myself. And so I’m not saying that I was going to say prioritizing exercise, sleep and nutrition. That is not going to completely stave off depression, but it does help.

And so like if you’re getting physical, if you’re going out, even just for a walk, getting your face out in the air, taking care of your body through good nutrition, eight hours of sleep. I would definitely say I wasn’t probably getting eight hours of sleep minimum per night. Those are really good priorities to have as well.

And then ultimately, if you do end up finding that you need some support, I want to acknowledge that particularly, supports in that space are more difficult to access than what they should be. Just a few years ago, I found myself, I was like, okay, I need to talk to someone again. I found 10 therapists that were within distance for me to go to.

I called and left messages for 10 of them. I got two responses. Only one of them could take me. Just because you knock on one door that does not open, keep knocking and keep advocating for yourself because those supports are more difficult than they should be to access.

What should a teacher do if they think they need help?

Vicki Davis (14:07): Yeah, and I just want to give kudos to your principal who talked to you and saw you as a human being, not just a human doing. Teaching is a tough profession, and there’s seasons. Sometimes it’s our season to be in the classroom, sometimes out. But our heart is still in the classroom, even if it’s a season to move forward.

So we’ve been talking with Nicole Terrizzi. These are difficult things that we’re talking about, and I would just encourage if you need help to please reach out to get help. Advocate for yourself. Tell somebody at your school that, hey, I think I need help. And the memoir that she’s written is Learning in Free Fall.

I’m so sorry for some of the things that you have seen happen and lived through. And my heart breaks for all of us teachers who have those stories that we may never tell but still weigh on our hearts. So Nicole, thank you for your bravery and telling your story. And I hope that people listening will understand that the burdens that teachers carry, there’s a lot that you don’t know.

That every teacher carries, because we all have many very difficult stories. So, Nicole, thank you for telling yours.

Nicole Terrizzi (15:21): Thank you so much, Vicki.

Announcer (15:22): If you or someone you know is struggling, you are not alone. Call or text 988 to reach the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline anytime, day or night. If you’re worried a child is being harmed, call or text the Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline at 1-800-422-4453 and follow your school’s reporting procedure. These resources are in the show notes.

Thank you for tuning in to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. Join us here every weekday and subscribe to the Classroom Matters newsletter. See you later, educator!