I remember when I started teaching. I wanted to plan the first weeks. My Mom (my dearest mentor) told me not to get too far ahead. Not because lesson planning was a bad idea, but because the classroom was just so different from what you would expect. And it was. So much of the advice that Eric Hall gives was advice that I needed.
This is a great show for conversation with new teachers. Because things happen. A fire drill during a test. The internet goes down during a quiz. A bumblebee gets in the room. Eric Hall calls it controlled chaos, and after 27 years in the classroom, he says what holds it together is the relationship you built before the chaos hit.
In this episode, Eric, a three-time Teacher of the Year and the author of Controlled Chaos: Lessons They Didn’t Teach You in Teacher School, shares how he met families before the first day of school, why he called every parent at the end of the first week with one specific good thing about their child, and how he let his students help write the classroom agreements. You’ll also hear how a weekend ride in a Cessna brought Hatchet to life and how “Chef Henry” finally taught his class adjectives. If you’re new to teaching, or you’re mentoring someone who is, you’ll enjoy this show and have lots to talk about.
Here’s where the facts in this episode come from, with the time stamp so you can hear each one. Checked September 29, 2026.
Eric Hall is an award-winning educator, writer, and storyteller who has spent more than 27 years inspiring students in the classroom. A retired fifth-grade teacher from Cheboygan, Michigan, Hall is a three-time Teacher of the Year recipient, a winner of the American Red Cross Everyday Hero Award, was named one of the Top Educators of America, and has received a special teaching tribute from the Governor of Michigan. Known for his humor, creativity, and heart, Eric has built a career helping students see learning as both meaningful and fun.
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This transcript was generated using AI and has been reviewed by humans for accuracy. Minor errors or artifacts may remain but I worked my best to find any issues with the transcript as I reviewed the show. – Vicki
Vicki Davis (00:00): Happy Wonderful Classroom Wednesday. This is Episode 998. Today, we’re talking about controlled chaos.
Announcer (00:07): This is the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast with your host, Vicki Davis.
Vicki Davis (00:11): We’re talking with Eric Hall, a retired fifth-grade teacher, although he taught lots of different grades, from Cheboygan, Michigan. He retired after 27 years of teaching. He’s a three-time teacher of the year and author of the book called Controlled Chaos. Eric, why did you call your book Controlled Chaos?
Eric Hall (00:35): It’s actually kind of ironic, Vicki, if you think about it, because chaos, you think, is just like wild and crazy. And as a teacher, we plan things out. To the minute. And oftentimes things come up. You have a test, a fire drill happens. You have to give a test on a computer, internet shuts down. But underneath all that chaos, you’re teaching kids about patience, respect, kindness, how to deal with different issues. So that chaos is always controlled. And then the other part is the lessons they didn’t teach you in teacher school is an ironic thing because it’s kind of funny that they’re using a book that says things you didn’t learn in teacher school, and they’re using it in teacher schools.
Vicki Davis (01:16): There are so many unexpected things. I think of one time a bird got in the building or a bumblebee gets in the classroom. Sometimes we have something going on with sports. There’s any number of things. So what are some of the things that you really hope that teachers learn before they get in the classroom from your book?
Eric Hall (01:35): Well, my first principal always emphasized that you always put relationships before the rigor comes. And if you start the curriculum on the first day without getting to know the kids, getting to know their individual needs, then it becomes a lot more difficult to teach that curriculum down the line. So I really started out learning how to build that trust within my students. And then after that, I realized it was so much easier to teach the curriculum because they trusted me. That’s the huge thing that I always tell student teachers is build those relationships first, then the curriculum will come. There’s a guy named Dr. Brad Johnson. He’s pretty popular.
Vicki Davis (02:10): He’s been on the show. He’s great.
Eric Hall (02:12): And I always like to quote relationships before rigor. And that to me is extremely important. That’s the big thing. Build that trust. Get to know the parents. Get to know the kids. And then you will just have a successful school year.
Vicki Davis (02:24): Relate to educate. What are some of the things that you have done at the beginning of the year to get to know your students first?
Eric Hall (02:30): I started doing things before the school year started. I had put together a PowerPoint of what the classroom looked like, because I knew not every kid and parent where it was going to be able to attend open house. I would contact the parents before the school year even started and said, hey, I just want to come to your house. And I want to sit down with your kid and you and just go through this PowerPoint, show them how my classroom works. So that way, if you have questions, they’re individualized. And I can sit there with you for an hour or two hours and answer any questions you have. By the time they got to my classroom on Open House, they already knew what it looked like. They already felt comfortable being there. They already knew who I was. That was a huge first thing. So that way they got to know me before they walked in on the first day of school. Once I did that and they got into my classroom, I started connecting with them by doing different projects. I had kids in groups all year, kind of like a house system like you’d see in Harry Potter. I did a lot of team building activities within the kids in the group and got them to start trusting each other as a class and as a group. Throughout the week, I always communicated with parents. I’d call parents at night. I’d send emails, always send messages through texting just to get them to realize that your kid is in a safe place. They’re happy here and they’re really enjoying school. And once I did those things and the kids started trusting each other, trusting me, knowing how the routines were, we really took off right after that pretty easy.
Vicki Davis (03:48): So you really say, hey, we’re going to start off by building relationships and building trust. And it takes a lot of work. For example, I always have wanted my first phone call home to be positive.
Eric Hall (04:00): Yes.
Vicki Davis (04:00): Something exciting I noticed, because if the only time you call a parent, is to tell them something negative, they might not want to talk to you, you know?
Eric Hall (04:10): That’s correct. Make that first phone call a positive one. Because I always found, even in life, when you call, let’s just say the phone company, and you’re upset about a phone bill, but you treat that person with kindness and say, I love your service, this has been great, but I have this question. They’re more than likely to help you because they feel like, oh, you’re being so friendly and kind. The first Friday of the week, I called every single parent and I found one thing that I wanted to talk to each parent about specific to their kid. Wow, your kid’s a fantastic artist. Your kid is wonderful at reading, really helpful to other students. And find those little things. And I jot them down during the first week. So when Friday came, I knew what to talk to the parents about. And I noticed that after that, every time I’d call, I’d always start off with something positive.
Vicki Davis (04:55): I hesitate to ask this question because I have found in my experience, if you focus a lot on relationship management, classroom management is just a non-issue. So I am going to ask you about classroom management and what you tell new teachers about that.
Eric Hall (05:08): Like you said, it goes back to the relationship piece, but at the same time, I used to ask my students, I said, what do you want our classroom to look like? What do you want it to feel like? What have you experienced in the past in other classrooms that’s worked for you? What things haven’t worked for you? What kind of style of teaching do you like? I’m talking about fifth graders here, but they’re so open about it. And we kind of come up with an agreement. This is acceptable in the class. This isn’t acceptable. And because we’ve already built that trust, they know this is how the classroom operates. And they were involved in making that happen.
Vicki Davis (05:43): So what are some of the most important classroom procedures that you worked through with your students?
Eric Hall (05:48): One was that behavior could not interrupt the rest of the classroom. So if a kid who struggled and needed breaks, they would go and be able to step out in the hallway for a few minutes or go to the back of the classroom, set a timer for five minutes and get themselves calmed back down so they can come back and join the class. I used to tell my students that fair doesn’t always mean everyone gets the same thing. Fair is what everyone needs in order to be successful. Some kids were able to chew gum while others just weren’t. Some kids were able to use pedal bikes. I had this really neat exercise bike in the back of the room with like a little table they could work on. I had wobble stools for kids. So all those things we used as tools to help each kid with whatever they needed in order to be successful.
Vicki Davis (06:30): Having a variety of seating, really does make a difference. It’s the little things that are really big things, aren’t they?
Eric Hall (06:32): They are. And it’s funny, Vicki, because, you know, when you go to staff meetings, who are the worst people in the rooms? Are the teachers? Because they can’t sit still. They’re on their phone or they’re talking to their friend because they just got done with work all day. But yet we’re expecting the kids to sit there for six hours and not be able to leave their chairs. They need to be able to get their wiggles out and still be able to do what they need to do for me.
Vicki Davis (06:57): Get their wiggles out. It doesn’t stop in fifth grade, does it? It’s all the way through high school. When you did have that student who really, you know, for whatever reason pushed your buttons or they were a struggle or they were having a hard time at home, what did you do to try to help that student get back on track?
Eric Hall (07:17): There are a lot of kids who struggled, especially I think after post-COVID, we noticed a lot of increase in student behavior issues. To me, it still goes back to relationships. One of the things I learned how to do with kids who had difficulty with behavior was I got to know what their interests were. For example, I had a student one year, he was obsessed with Pokémon cards and he would get really upset sometimes and he would be frustrated. I’m just thinking in my head, what do I talk to this kid about, right? But I said, I bought a pack of Pokémon cards and I was wondering, is this one a good card? And I wouldn’t even show him the card. I would just tell him the name of the Pokémon if I could pronounce it correctly. And the kid would suddenly change gears and go, oh yeah, that’s a good card, or no, that’s a bad one. You need to think about this card. So then after we talk about Pokémon for a few minutes, I’m like, hey, let’s look at these first few problems. Show me that you could do these first few problems. Let’s see how it goes. And then they would do it. I bet you can’t do the next three. Yeah, now it’s a challenge. Well, yeah, I’m going to do it. So they’re going to do the next three and they continue that way. But I always try to find interests of each individual kid. Plus, typically teachers would come to me when they got class lists and go, oh, look out for this kid and stuff. So I knew, OK, I really needed to focus my attention on those kids. But I didn’t want them to know that they had issues in the past because every year kids change. So I didn’t want to pigeonhole them into this is the category kid they are. I just knew, okay, these are kids that are going to need some extra attention. I need to learn everything I can about these kids and see what works for them, what things made them successful. I was very lucky because I had a school therapist in our building and I would go to the therapist and say, what things does this kid enjoy? And they would tell me and then I would use that to my advantage.
Vicki Davis (08:58): So if you were sitting in front of a group of 50 new teachers getting ready to teach the next school year, where would you start talking to them?
Eric Hall (09:06): After a conversation about relationships, I would start telling them to take some risks. Remember that kids are kids and that sometimes they’re going to be bored and that’s life. But then sometimes you have to engage them in doing different things. And that’s really what this book is about. It’s about 27 lessons that I did with my students that after I did them, there are some things that I learned in the process. One example is that you’re reading this book, Hatchet. There’s a Cessna plane involved and the pilot has a heart attack. I was reading this book to the kids. I’m thinking, this is the best chapter I’ve ever read of any book by Gary Paulsen. And they just looked bored. I was thinking, how do I engage these kids so they can relate? So I called up my local airport and I said, hey, is there anyone that has this kind of Cessna plane? And a guy did. And so I reached out to the superintendent. I said, listen, I want to do something a little weird here. I want to bring these kids to the airport and have them fly in the plane. And the superintendent was like, well, that’s kind of a liability issue. I’m not sure we want to do that. But you can always do it on a weekend and not make it school sponsored. So I was like, that’s perfect. Got all the kids there on a weekend. They flew up in the plane. So they knew what it felt for the character to fly the plane. So when we came back on Monday, they asked me, can we read this chapter again? And I read it to them again. And they knew what all the controls were. They knew how he felt. They knew everything about it. And if I just read that chapter and moved on and been like, oh, well, they don’t get it. It wouldn’t connect to them. Now they’re able to connect to the main character in a better way. So a lot of the activities and things that I talk about in the book are things like that. Things that I didn’t expect to happen but it ended up happening because I took a risk and decided, you know what, I’m not just going to teach them how to do these fractions. I’m going to do it in a way where I’m dressed up and make them into detectives and start a detective agency and have them do it that way.
Vicki Davis (10:59): Do you have another example you could give us where you were like, hey, we’re going to take that risk?
Eric Hall (11:04): Well, there was one time when I was teaching adjectives and the kids were just straight up bored. So they walked into my classroom and I was dressed as a French chef and I had all of these different foods. I talked and I can’t do accents, but I tried my best. I don’t think it came out. I don’t know what I was. I had like this mustache. That was a fake mustache. It was halfway falling off at that point and a spatula. And I called myself ornery Chef Henry. And I would say, Hey, I’ve got these different foods I’ve made, but they’re foods that you could buy like Oreos, but I called them some weird name. And I said, I want you to give me three adjectives to describe the food that I just serve for you. And so they were all excited about it. Food, first of all, is always a plus with kids. And then I call on kids as the chef and go, how did you describe my food? And they would list their adjectives and they were finally getting it. That’s just a way of making it different and more engaging. And they got it. They understood it. We have to give the state tests at the end of the year. But when they say just find some adjectives in this passage and they’re going to connect and go, oh, yeah, adjectives. That was that chef. I remember that. And so that’s how I connect it with kids.
Vicki Davis (12:13): Give them a pep talk to just encourage what we teachers need to be remembering.
Eric Hall (12:19): Teaching is difficult. It’s difficult because if you make a mistake, it’s probably going to be posted on social media somewhere. But the thing that I learned the most over 27 years is that it’s the most rewarding job in the world. Our jobs are the only job that I can think of where they’re going to go, you made an impact in my life. Whether it be positive or negative, you made a difference. When I talk to people who are going in the classroom who are scared, I’m like, you know what? You are going to figure out how to do this your way. No one’s going to teach you exactly how a system is going to work that’s best for you, but you are going to be the most influential person in this kid’s life. And this is going to bear a lot of weight on your shoulders. Just remember that these kids look up to you. They respect you. They know that you’re going to be there for them, even on bad days, they know that you still care about them. And it’s important to tell your students that all the time. I care about you. I want you to succeed. I want you to be better. Because kids today who I taught 27 years ago still talk about things that I did in my classroom that I don’t even remember doing, but it left an impact on them. Teaching is the most influential job in the world. And I say to all teachers, you are the most important people society has right now.
Vicki Davis (13:38): We’ve been talking with Eric Hall from Cheboygan, Michigan, three-time Teacher of the Year and author of the book, Controlled Chaos. Thanks for coming on the show.
Announcer (13:49): Thank you for tuning in to the 10 Minute Teacher Podcast. Join us here every weekday and subscribe to the Classroom Matters newsletter. See you later, educator.
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