PAUL PETERSON, HOST:
This is the Education Exchange of Paul Peterson. I am the director of the Program on Education Policy and Governance at Harvard University. Thank you for joining us. Homeschooling is the most rapidly growing educational sector in the United States. Public schools and private schools are declining in enrollments as fertility rates are falling. The borders have closed immigration, and the numbers of students are fewer than ever before. So, it’s a surprise then to see that homeschooling has doubled in size from 3 percent before the pandemic to 6 percent today. Now that’s still a small share of the U.S. school-age population, but rapid growth has changed homeschooling and what people think about homeschooling. A topic explored in a new book by Dixie Dillon Lane, which is entitled Skipping School, A History of American Homeschooling and How It Went Mainstream. I’m very pleased to have Dixie Dillon Lane with me on the Education Exchange today. Thank you, Dixie, for joining me.
DIXIE DILLON LANE: Thank you so much for having me.
PETERSON: Well, Dixie, we will dig into your historical account but let me ask you the question that many listeners want to know first and foremost. Do you homeschool your own children?
LANE: Well, that is a fair question. I have four children. They are in grades first through 10th. And like many, many parents, I do different things with my different children. So, my 10th grader is in private school and my younger three are currently homeschooled.
PETERSON: Well, what are the greatest joys of homeschooling?
LANE: Oh, man. You know, having extra time with your children is really wonderful and having the chance to observe them more up close and to be the one who gets to see so much of their educational awareness, you know, to see your own child learn to read, see that click, you know, to read a great poem aloud like Tennyson or something and see your children shiver. It’s just a delight. So many of the wonderful things about parenting for everyone, you just get a little bit more of.
PETERSON: Well, how about the challenges? It can’t be all love and happiness. There’s got to be some problems that you encounter. What would you say are some of the things that people should know about?
LANE: Yeah, I mean, homeschooling is a big job. And if any of your listeners do homeschool themselves, I think that will resonate. It is a big job. It requires a lot of time and a lot of effort and attention, usually from one parent in particular. And I think that that’s the hardest part is that you really have to be both teacher and parent. I think all parents are already to a certain degree, but it takes a lot of continuing education for yourself, too, and commitment and humility and willingness to accept help, too, and not be a perfectionist. So, yeah, it’s like everything. It’s a mixed bag.
PETERSON: Well, you mentioned that it’s mainly the job of one of the parents. And in your case, I think you’re doing the lion’s share. But how important is your husband’s role in the in the whole homeschooling experience?
LANE: My husband and I are both historians, but he works full time as a history professor, whereas my work is part time. So, it made sense for us, for me to be the primary homeschooling parent. But he actually still participates. He’s very good about…he’ll take on a certain subject so for example this last year he did handwriting because I was just really tired of it and he was interested because he had always had terrible handwriting and had recently taught himself to write better. So, he was able to bring that to the table and also because we have different perspectives on different subjects, a lot of our dinner table conversation and field trips and things like that are things that he can add a lot to in terms of the children’s education. So, we always say, because I study American history and he studies French history, you know, I will talk with the children about the Civil War, and he will talk with the children about the wars of religion. So, you know, we all bring something to the table, even though, yes, I do the lion’s share of the work in that area of our family life.
PETERSON: Well, now, neither one of you has a background in the sciences. And so, one of the questions that’s always been of concern to me is, can homeschoolers provide adequate instruction in the STEM subjects, whether it’s math or biology or chemistry or physics? How do you address that particular issue? I know your oldest child is going to private school, and maybe that’s one way to handle that. So how do you address that kind of question?
LANE: I think it’s a great question. And I would say if we wanted to step back and try to look at outcomes, I don’t think we have any evidence that homeschoolers struggle more in particular areas than in others. Like when they get to college academically, there’s so much variance. I have a really dear friend who homeschools her four children, and her children are very interested in STEM. And so, she actually sort of struggles to motivate them in the humanities. So, some of it’s going to be your kids and your particular interests. I’m aware that although I really value science. It’s not something that I have as strong a natural interest in as I do in most of the other subjects. So, for me and our family, it’s been a matter of making sure that I have the resources I need to teach that subject well. And for me, a lot of the time that means outsourcing a little bit more. So, with history or literature, my own family style with homeschooling is that I like to create my own assignments and work through books together with my children. But I can’t do that for science, so I’m much more likely to purchase a curriculum. We also rely really heavily on our local library, which has science lessons like a club every week for children. So, they get to do an experiment every week, which is a lot. And then we just try to, I guess, maybe I pay more attention to the subjects I know I’m weaker in. And that’s a matter of self-knowledge, I think.
PETERSON: Well, you’re doing a great job. Of course, everybody wants to know if that’s generally the case, but you say homeschooling is going mainstream in the title of your book. You know, only 6 percent of students are being homeschooled, and that’s a big increase in recent years, but it still is a small share. And so, what do you mean by saying it’s gone mainstream?
LANE: Well, when I use the word mainstream, what I mean is that it’s a norm within the mainstream. So, it’s certainly not the major norm. It’s not the primary way that people educate their children. But it’s no longer odd. I would say two things in response. One, when I looked at the demographic data on homeschoolers for my book, which, you know, if you have any familiarity with homeschool data and homeschool research, it’s very difficult to work with. Very often it’s sort of apples and oranges from one study to the next. But the census has been gathering a lot of data in the past few years on demographics and demographically homeschoolers are now very much like the rest of America even racially we are getting to be very similar to other Americans. So, in that way, it’s part of the mainstream in that it’s not one particular group that does it. We have people of all races, all religions, all political leanings and all locations where they live and also economic status. So, everyone is doing it, even if most people are not. The second thing I would say is just to bring up some of the other minor norms in education. So, for example, Catholic school. Most people do not go to Catholic school, not by a long shot. But it’s not weird to go to Catholic school. If you meet a kid and you say, what school do they go to and they say, well, I go to St. John’s. You go, oh, yeah, you go to Catholic school. Well, there are twice as many homeschoolers in the United States than children who go to Catholic diocesan schools, parochial schools, twice as many.
PETERSON: Yeah, but still, you know, homeschooling sort of began in the evangelical Protestant community. And religion was really a big motivator initially. Isn’t that still a driving force as to why families are choosing to homeschool?
LANE: Well, it did begin among evangelical Christians and also conservative Catholics. It also began in libertarian highly secular sort of part of the alt ed world in the 60s and 70s as well; so, it started in two places. I think it’s true that in the 20th century homeschooling had a larger share of white-evangelical protestants that’s certainly the case although when you look at the numbers it’s actually less than you would think. And today—so I mentioned that homeschooling data is a little bit complex. So even like the NCES, the federal government arm for education research, their surveys, they’ve changed their questions over time. It’s hard to compare. But the number of parents who choose religious reasons as one of the reasons they homeschool has really declined in the past 25 years. So, it used to be in the top three reasons. And now it’s quite a bit farther down. So, I think that religion is still important to a lot of homeschoolers, for sure. And there are a lot of religious groups that support homeschooling. But it’s a lot less common for that to be the primary motivating factor than it ever was before.
PETERSON: But it still is somehow a reaction to what’s going on in the public schools, is it not? Aren’t a lot of people who homeschool sort of saying, I’m unhappy with what is being provided children in the public schools, either in terms of moral instruction or in terms of academic instruction?
LANE: Yes, that’s absolutely true. And also, I think another reason is school safety that people cite. So, that’s true; that’s sort of a push factor. People feel pushed out of public schools or they have some problem with their public schools. And because public schools vary so widely, even within a single district, I think a lot of people find themselves in a situation where they don’t want to use the public school for one reason or another. And then they’re seeking an alternative. And homeschooling is a much more easily accessible alternative than I think it used to be. And so, people are more likely to choose that rather than either to go to the public school anyway or choose a private school.
PETERSON: But people are going back and forth between homeschooling and the public school. That’s the other side of the coin. How much of that are you observing?
LANE: That’s absolutely correct. And I would say even in my family, as I mentioned, although I don’t have any children in public school, I do have a child in private school. And I think one thing that that may indicate is that homeschooling is overall, not for specific families, but overall less an ideological choice than it might have been in the past because parents are willing to move in and out of different kinds of schooling. And it’s also common for parents to do that, have one child in one kind of school and one child in another. And it’s become relatively common among homeschoolers to actually send the preschoolers to a preschool program. Because it makes it a lot easier to teach the 7, 8, 9, 10-year-old if your 4-year-old isn’t drawing on the wall with a Sharpie. So, I think that that flexibility is really interesting and suggests that maybe homeschoolers on average are not as rigid as the stereotype might suggest about their educational choices.
PETERSON: Well, your research focuses quite a bit on Southern California, and I’m wondering why you chose Southern California to focus the study and whether or not that skews your study or whether you can generalize from Southern California to the United States as a whole.
LANE: I hope that you can generalize some, or at least in the way that I tried to do in the book. But homeschooling is so fun because we try to say things about homeschoolers on average or like that there’s a national narrative. But the experience of homeschooling is extremely local and extremely private. It happens in individual families. So how do you tell a story about homeschooling while keeping in mind both the actual experience and looking for national patterns? So, my solution was to do a case study. I did it for a number of reasons, including the difficulty of finding sources. And I also did it because I wanted to have the ability to look at different kinds of homeschoolers. A lot of us live wherever we may live. Often a particular area is dominated by a particular type of homeschooler. So, like I say in the book, if I studied a community in rural Alabama, I would not get any sense of what different kinds of homeschoolers were like, probably. Los Angeles is great for that because there was a diversity all across the ages, or all across the decades, but also it was just a very important place in homeschooling. And California was more generally; you know, had a high number of homeschoolers at the very beginning of the movement. A lot of the homeschool leaders were based there. There were some really interesting litigation court cases there. So yeah, that’s why I chose that. And I think it’s important to acknowledge the limits that you have to put on any study. But I think it does offer a window into homeschooling, both on the personal and the narrative level that you couldn’t get if you didn’t do a case study.
PETERSON: Well, you have a great narration in your book, and I encourage all those interested in homeschooling to introduce themselves to the subject by finding this historical narrative, a way of finding out more about what this world is really like. And you begin with the Turner family, and they were prosecuted by the state of California. And I think that’s a fascinating case. And it happened, I think, in the early 50s. Can you tell us a little bit about the Turner family and what happened to them?
LANE: Sure. So, the Turners had been homeschooling in the Los Angeles area. I believe if I’m remembering correctly, they had moved there relatively recently from New York where they had also been homeschooling. And that was incredibly rare in the 1950s to teach your children at home. And Mary Turner was charged basically with truancy for her children because they were not enrolled in school. And this was a case that was covered by the newspapers, which means it’s accessible. You can read about it. And she was accused of communism. And that was fascinating to me because we forget how much effect the Cold War had on education. It really transformed education in our country. And it seems like for many things at that time, you could be accused of communism on either side of the aisle or whatever you were doing. It was something that could be said. And the court did end up ruling that her children had to return to school. And she was very interesting because although they had done some travel schooling where they were traveling on the road, their everyday schooling was very school-like. It was, you know, in desks and they did all the subjects, and they had the children tested. And yet the state still ruled against them.
PETERSON: Well, was there a particular law in the state of California that was the basis for the judge’s ruling?
LANE: Well, homeschooling…well, the codes of education obviously vary state by state. So homeschooling law is very different state to state. In California, there was no; there’s nothing on the books about homeschooling, which was the case in most states. And so, it was just governed by compulsory education. And the compulsory education code said that you either had to go to school, or you had to go to a private school, or you had to have a tutor. So, Mary Turner’s argument or her lawyer’s argument was that she was qualified as a teacher, as a tutor, even though she didn’t have a teaching credential. And the state didn’t buy that.
PETERSON: So, the law in the book says you have to go to school. It could be a private school, but you’ve got to go to school. You’ve got to have some kind of educated, licensed individual to provide the instruction. Has that changed in California, or did they ever pass a law which said, OK, now you can homeschool in California? What happened?
LANE: The code has not changed. But, you know, to run a private school in California, you do not have to have a teaching credential. You do not have to have a degree, a graduate degree. You do not have to have any kind of credential. So, the loophole that homeschoolers identified was they were as qualified as the teacher or even the principal of a private school. And so, it seemed a little unjust that the reason that they were being prosecuted was that they didn’t have a teaching credential because private school teachers did not have teaching credentials. That’s still the case in California. But what homeschoolers ended up doing was they started registering their homeschools as private schools. They also took advantage of this other option, which was that you could be tutored by someone with a teaching credential. So, if you as the parent had a teaching credential or you had a friend who had one, you could claim that as a sort of exemption to compulsory education. In 2008, this actually went to the California courts through a child abuse case in which a child who was clearly being abused by her family. was ordered to school or her siblings were ordered to school, which is very normal that a child would be ordered to go to school if there was a suspicion of abuse because then they’re in contact with teachers who will report abuse. But in that case, the court also ruled that homeschooling was unconstitutional in California. And that set off all the alarm bells of all the homeschooling advocates. as well as the governor of California, even the LA Unified School Districts filed an amicus brief in favor of it, and the court reversed its ruling. And their argument was very interesting. They argued that there was evidence within California law that the legislators intended homeschooling to be legal, even if they hadn’t made a law exactly saying so. So, for example, in the code where it says you can only smoke—you have to be so many feet away from a school in order to smoke. It says except for homeschools. So, they’re considering it in their law as something that already is legal, even though it wasn’t established clearly that way.
PETERSON: So, I think also it helped that the governor at the time was Governor Schwarzenegger, who was sort of middle of the road liberal Republican, but was not sort of tied to the public-school establishment. And I think he sort of gave the homeschooling community his backing.
LANE: He did. He spoke publicly about it. And a lot of other people did, too. And a lot of different diverse groups did. And I think what that suggests is that Californians generally presumed that it was legal. So, people were surprised that the court ruled that way. So, Schwarzenegger certainly did. And there were just amicus briefs from all different places, some that would be very surprising. And that I think essentially pressured the court into revising the ruling because it was clear that the intention was that homeschooling was legal under this registration as a private school.
PETERSON: Well, now, education is a state and local responsibility, and the federal government doesn’t get involved in education very much. But has the U.S. Supreme Court ever made a decision with respect to homeschooling?
LANE: I’m not sure. I know that the Turner case, for example, I think was appealed to the Supreme Court, but they did not hear it. But of course, the Supreme Court has ruled in ways that are used as precedents in this kind of matter.
PETERSON: One case that doesn’t decide things but comes up, and I think you mentioned it in your book, is the Yoder case. This is the Amish case, and I think it’s in Wisconsin, where they’re homeschooling their adolescent children, I think, starting at the age of 15. And even though there’s a law that says you have to go to a public school or private school until the age of 16, so they were opting out early. And that was found to be illegal in Wisconsin. And then the Supreme Court took that case, I think.
LANE: That’s right. And that’s such an interesting case and the Amish overall are so fascinating in their education and their relationship with public education as well. In the Yoder case, you know, they weren’t really attempting any academics or anything like that after eighth grade. They had a religious objection to academic education after eighth grade, unlike the Mennonites. So, it was adjudicated, I think, based on the religious argument that this was a strongly held, sincere religious belief and they should have an exemption. So, the Supreme Court did rule in favor of the Amish in that case, but some of the language, if I’m recalling correctly, made it clear that the court did not intend this to be applied to all groups asking for an exception to compulsory education. It was pretty specific to this religious case but it’s still in some ways it feels a lot like these homeschooling conflicts because some of the fathers were arrested, the families were very frightened and of course was also on the other side, state officials who were truly very concerned that these children were not getting the educational opportunity they needed. I think that’s very often the case that there are good intentions on both sides in these situations.
PETERSON: Well, you know, I think most states now allow homeschooling. Isn’t that the case? It’s not been a federal solution to this problem. On a state-by-state basis, California rulings have been echoed elsewhere around the country pretty much. Is that not the case?
LANE: Yes, that’s true. And each state regulates to a different degree. I think there are 11 states, though I may have the number wrong, that do not do any registration or reporting of homeschoolers. But every other state does some level of registration and reporting from simply filling out a form and having a test at the end of the year to you know, requirements for regular meetings with the school district and certain number of days of academic work each year and that sort of thing. So, it really does vary state to state. I think that as with private schools, some of the not just federal, but just national movements in education certainly affect homeschooling. The SAT, the AP exams, common core curricula, things like that certainly affect what people do in homeschool. And I think especially as people get to high school, the desire for children to be able to compete in college admissions is an important part of how people frame their high school homeschooling, I think.
PETERSON: So, there’s a big debate in this whole space about how much regulation of homeschool. I think you’re right. Homeschooling has gone mainstream in that it’s now accepted pretty much that some people are going to choose to do this. But, there’s still…there’s a big argument as to how much regulation there should be. How many guardrails should you have to report? Should you have to follow certain procedures? Should you have to provide certain kinds of instruction? What’s your personal view of where we should be going with respect to the state regulation of homeschooling?
LANE: I mean, I think that’s for the people of each state to decide. In terms of my personal opinion, I don’t see homeschooling as merely a private good. I mean, education is not a private good alone. It’s both private and public. And I think that the people, the community, the state, has some interest in ensuring that children get an adequate education. I think as things stand now, because public schools on average are struggling so much with literacy and numeracy, I think it’s a hard sell to say that public school districts and state governments should have close control of homeschooling. I think that’s a hard sell right now. I think giving people an opportunity to try different things makes a lot of sense. I guess I lean toward low regulation, but some— Personally, I really like the freedom of homeschooling. But I do think it makes sense for, you know, some sort of minimal at least check in on children to make sure that they’re not being neglected. Now, we do know that on average, again, they’re doing OK academically, homeschoolers. But that doesn’t mean, you know, a particular family in either way. So, I think one—
PETERSON: What’s the evidence on that? Do we have evidence that homeschoolers are learning as much as children in school or, has this changed, or what’s the documentation on how much is actually learned when kids are taught at home?
LANE: We have scattered evidence of different kinds. We don’t have a national test, for example, that compares homeschoolers to public schoolers. There’s been some research done by the National Home Education Research Institute on small groups that has repeatedly suggested that homeschoolers do perform significantly better than public schoolers. Again, that’s sort of a small sample size. We also have things like the ACT. We can look at ACT results and see that homeschoolers are much, much, much higher than public schoolers, very close to private schools. And I would say that for all of that data, it does not prove that any particular child will do better as a homeschooler than in public school. Because it’s not clear that it’s causal, right? But it does show that homeschoolers on average are doing all right. So, in terms of the concern about homeschooling overall, I think there’s enough evidence to say that they are doing better than their public-school peers on average.
PETERSON: Well, that’s of those that we know who are homeschooling. And you always worry about how about those who never report that they’re homeschooling? We don’t know anything about them.
LANE: That’s true. And I think I mean, my personal opinion is that it does make sense to have to notify if your state has a compulsory education law, at least for them to know that you are homeschooling. But I would just bring this back to the question of public schools again, because I think that if we’re if we’re holding in our mind. a sort of idealized version of public school or maybe a good experiences we have or that our children are having, and we hold that up against our fears for homeschooling, we’re going to become very concerned. But if we’re looking at average performance for public school, it’s really rather poor. So, I think we have to be a little bit careful not to presume that homeschooling must be suspect as compared to public schools and that most children, if they were in public schools, would be doing really well. So, in that context, I think I agree with the sentiment that there should be some reasonable regulation or interest. This is a public good as well as a private one, as I’ve said. But I think the suspicion of homeschooling is often based on false assumptions about the school landscape that’s out there.
PETERSON: Well, how about adults who have been homeschooled? Has anybody ever asked a set of questions that would get us to find out whether they’re odd ducks, are doing unusual things, or are they pretty much like other folks
LANE: You know there is some really interesting data about social engagement from homeschoolers. They’re talking about homeschooled children but of course this would include their parents too about things like how often do they go to the library, the public library, how often do they go to a concert, things like that. And actually, that study found that, I’m sorry, I’m not remembering who it was, but it was a government study. It was a government study. That study found that homeschoolers actually did that on average at a higher rate than other school children. Now, school children may be going to the library at their own school. Again, it does not mean that regular school children do not do these things, but it does mean that homeschoolers are actually out in the public. They’re not just at home hiding. They are going really regularly into these public institutions and engaging. Anecdotally, I would say that just from my experience teaching college, I mean, they’re as varied as any kids coming in. You have some public-school kids coming in who can write a great essay. You have some coming in who don’t know how to come up and ask a question of a professor. And I think the same is true of homeschooling. There’s just a lot of variance.
PETERSON: Now, this is a question, how do homeschoolers get to college? Because generally speaking, you get to college by showing that you have good grades in high school, or maybe you take the SAT test, but you’ve got to have a teacher’s recommendation. How do homeschoolers persuade colleges to accept them?
LANE: I think they do very similar things to other students. Sometimes it’s just there’s a little bit of hacking. So, you know, sometimes mom has to create the transcript. But very often, a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot of people do enroll, especially in high school, with some sort of online teaching program or curriculum so that their children will have a recognizable transcript. A lot of homeschoolers will dual enroll at a community college so that their kids will have some classroom experience and a transcript. Or, you know, you can have a teacher recommendation written by a piano teacher or by, you know, somewhere where you volunteered, someone there. So, I think people have to find little ways like that. And of course, they do take the SAT or the ACT or the CLT. They do write their essays. They do all of those things. It’s a lot easier now. I’d say maybe 30 years ago when homeschooling was less common, people would do things like write letters, you know, arguing for why, even though they were homeschooled, they should get in. But now it’s very familiar. Colleges are very familiar. with homeschool applications.
PETERSON: Well, you know, there’s a lot of homeschooling in the United States if you compare the United States to continental Europe. Now, the Anglo-Saxon countries have some homeschooling, you know, Australia, England, Canada, not as much as in the United States. But if you compare the United States to Germany or France or Scandinavia, they don’t homeschool at all over there. Why is it that there is much more homeschooling on this side of the Atlantic than on the other side?
LANE: I think that’s a historical question about our particular culture and society. And I argue in my book that it’s based on the fact that, as you mentioned, education in the United States is locally controlled. It’s a lot less locally controlled than it used to be, which I think is part of the story of homeschooling. But I do think that Americans over the long term have had a belief that homeschooling should be locally decided and that parents should have a lot of say in it. And I don’t think that a country like Germany or France shares that belief. They have a belief that this should be a national project. And of course, it’s also much more manageable for them to do it as a national project because they’re these smaller states. And, you know, Germany has concerns about subcultures because of what happened in the 1920s, 30s and 40s. So, they just have different cultures. So homeschooling is it is sort of particularly American. And I’m very interested by its growth in places like the United Kingdom and in how that plays out. But I haven’t had a chance to study it in any depth yet.
PETERSON: Well, you did study one German family that refused to go back to Germany because they were concerned that they wouldn’t be able to continue homeschooling their child, and they actually said that they needed political haven to escape this oppression. So that’s a fascinating story that you end up with in your account. Could you share that with our listeners?
LANE: Sure. I’m afraid I’m not quite sure how to pronounce this family’s name. It’s Ramika, or something like that and they were a family who, a Christian family, a conservative Christian family, in Germany. A German family who were homeschooling their children and the situation escalated between them and local school officials where there were conversations first and then there were there were truancy reports, fines and there was a brief removal of the children from the home by their social services not for abuse, but because they would not enroll their children in a school. And the family flew across the ocean to the United States and applied for asylum. Now, this case is still ongoing; I think it’s been about 15 years. And it has been unresolved because the United States cannot decide whether or not this population of homeschoolers is one that would be persecuted in its home country and therefore qualifies for asylum. And periodically there’s a flip-flop in their status. So, every once in a while…you know, for many years they were in this situation where they had not been given asylum, but they were given regular renewals of permission to stay in the United States. They just had to check in once a year. And a couple of years ago, they checked in and were told, no, you can’t stay anymore. We’re going to deport you back. Now, by that point, they’d been in the country for 15 years. So, their older children had married Americans and had American children. I think a couple of the children may have been born in the United States. And so, you know, it fits into all of these conversations we’re having about immigration and deportation. But it really came out of nowhere. Now they’re still back in their once-a-year check-in. But it shows how sort of ambivalent we still are in some ways about homeschooling and what its role is or what its role is as a right in our culture.
PETERSON: But the story reminds me that we did have a Declaration of Independence, which talked about the government being the consent of the governed and focused on the liberties of the individual. And so, there is something special about the United States. And when you think about the United States and homeschooling and say, only there is this likely to have come to scale at the level that we are experiencing today. So, thank you, Dixie, for sharing that story. And thank you for joining me on the Education Exchange.
LANE: Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.
PETERSON: I’ve been speaking with Dixie Dillon Lane. She is the author of a new book entitled Skipping School, A History of Homeschooling and How It Went Mainstream. I need to mention that on September 17th and September 18th, this coming fall, the Program on Education Policy and Governance at Harvard is hosting a conference that is attracting homeschoolers from across the country. We’re going to have many panels on different aspects of the new approaches to homeschooling. And Daniel Hamlin, the new dean at the University of Texas, and I will be the moderators for the conference. You can learn more about this by going to the PEPG website and clicking on the conference title Emerging School Models. I am Paul Peterson. This is the Education Exchange. Please join me for a new podcast released on the Education Next website every Monday at noon Eastern time. Thank you for joining us.
